Kyle Lawrence [00:00:00]:
Mr. Peltz goes to Washington. Trump pardons literally everybody, and my little Holly is recovering from knee surgery. All that and more coming up on Block and Order. Welcome to Block and Order, the show that explores the legal issues facing the world of Web3 and beyond. I'm Kyle Lawrence, and with me, as always, the tech giant himself, Mr. Moish Peltz.

Moish Peltz [00:00:29]:
Good to see you, Kyle.

Kyle Lawrence [00:00:31]:
Good to see you. How are you doing, my friend here? I'm gonna celebrate you because you're the best, the absolute champion of this world.

Moish Peltz [00:00:38]:
Look at us, Kyle. We started, you know, just a humble little podcast, and now we have sound effects.

Kyle Lawrence [00:00:44]:
I'm like Joe Rogan now with this microphone going on. This is amazing.

Moish Peltz [00:00:47]:
Now I feel a little jealous because I got this older microphone and you got, like, fancy new thing and a sound panel and applause. And you know what else? Who knows what other surprises you have in there?

Kyle Lawrence [00:00:57]:
I got a new haircut. My dog has a metal knee now. Two metal knees. It's all going my way.

Moish Peltz [00:01:03]:
Holly's the real hero. We're happy that she's home recovering and in good spirits.

Kyle Lawrence [00:01:07]:
So thank you. Actually, if I may, she's doing so much better than I expected. So she's nine. She had the same surgery two and a half years ago, and she was not okay afterwards. She looked, like, really impacted by it. Right now she's walking around and is up to her old tricks, and I'm. I'm pretty pleased with it.

Moish Peltz [00:01:28]:
So that's great. Well, yeah, thank you. Holly needs to hear her own little, like, fan section of. If you're a fan of Holly out there, let's put up a photo of.

Kyle Lawrence [00:01:38]:
Her recovering, and I will definitely throw up a photo. And she definitely has fans out there far and wide, so thank you. I appreciate it. And regrettably, I could talk about Holly all night, but the show must go on. Moish, we. Boy, do we have a show to cover.

Moish Peltz [00:01:51]:
Oh, yeah, lots of show. Well, you mentioned it in the. In the pre roll, but our first top topic for the order today is, as you mentioned, I go to Washington. You go to Washington. We both went to Washington, and we were actually at a conference. The digital chamber of conference held a summit in. In, you know, last week of March, and there were, what, 25 members of Congress. Something along.

Moish Peltz [00:02:19]:
Along those lines, there were a ton of suits. I don't think I've seen more suits at a crypto conference before. I mean, I think you and I both had at least a blazer on which, you know, was dressing up for us. For sure. At a crypto conference.

Kyle Lawrence [00:02:32]:
Sure is.

Moish Peltz [00:02:33]:
But on top of that, it's just like really high level political conversation. Senators and Congress people talking about bills they're working on, passing general counsel, lobbyists, attorneys, lots of attorneys. And what else? What do you think?

Kyle Lawrence [00:02:50]:
There's definitely a lot of consultants there. So. It's funny, I've never been to D.C. before, which is shocking even to me. I've been all over the world, but I haven't been there. And I knew I was in D.C. because every person I spoke to was a lobbyist or a consultant. But it was good to start seeing the wheels of progress in terms of, you know, we've always been talking about, okay, this new administration, the vibes are great.

Kyle Lawrence [00:03:12]:
Now let's put things into action. And, and you're starting to see a lot of that Bill Haggerty was there. He was talking about the Genius act, which, I mean, I know Congress and their acronyms. The Genius act is guiding and establishing National Innovation for us stablecoins act, because of course it is. But nonetheless, it's a potentially viable piece of legislation. And to see all the members of Congress and, and the senators there talking about that and talking about the things they were doing and it was, to an extent, bipartisan. Christian Gillibrand was up there with it with a couple other, you know, Republican counterparts. So, you know, it's good to see that.

Kyle Lawrence [00:03:50]:
It's good to see people working together in spite of what you see on tv.

Moish Peltz [00:03:53]:
Yeah, I agree completely. I mean, there's. There's definitely a bipartisan crowd there. There's definitely, you know, bipartisan people working on crypto. They were all very excited to show up at this event and explain what they're working on. And I mean, I think the Genius act actually of. Of the crazy acronyms for political acts is like, pretty good. Yeah, it's pretty good.

Moish Peltz [00:04:16]:
I don't like that. I don't know if you saw that. The bill itself has. It removes the ability to generate yield natively on a token, which I against. But that's, that's an example of the kinds of things that when you start working through what real stablecoin bill should look like, should that be included? Should it not? You know, there, there we had our elected representatives walking around explaining their views to the industry and getting feedback and, you know, so it was an impressive display of the political process on view. Even if it is kind of this, you know, less than desirable. Like, it's more fun to like build cool crypto stuff and, you know, see a Number go up and not really like see like politicians talk shop. But it was a very valuable conference at that.

Kyle Lawrence [00:05:05]:
Yeah. Well, and of course, not to be outdone, Michael Saylor was there and he once again convinced me to sell everything I own and just put it all in bitcoin. It's amazing that I even have furniture or clothes left in this house after seeing him talk again is unbelievable.

Moish Peltz [00:05:21]:
He's very good at it. He's very convincing.

Kyle Lawrence [00:05:23]:
Who was your favorite speaker? What was your favorite thing that you saw unfold at last week's conference?

Moish Peltz [00:05:31]:
Oh, man. Well, it's the first time I've seen Hester Peirce in person since our. She was on our show. And now that she is leading the crypto task force, she had a very different agenda and a much more triumphant agenda than when we last spoke with her. And so I thought that was very exciting to see. I thought so. That was great. I thought, I thought seeing Bo Hines, who's the assistant on the crypto task force, the executive task force, was also very well spoken and had some very encouraging things to say.

Moish Peltz [00:06:07]:
A lot of these recordings I think are available even online recordings. So if people want to go ahead and watch, we'll drop a link in the show notes. But I thought, I thought them, the two of them were very knowledgeable and lucid and had a very clear agenda that they were trying to discuss. So enjoyed that. How about you, Kyle?

Kyle Lawrence [00:06:24]:
I saw amongst a bunch of other people, Sarah McBride, the freshman congresswoman from Delaware. She's the first transgender woman in Congress and she was just incredible. What an erudite, impactful speaker. And the thing she was talking about, how digital assets and bitcoin specifically can be used to help impoverished communities. The things we've talked about with Alex Gladstein's book and some of the other use cases in the other countries and the way that she was talking about it and the way it can be used was just really powerful stuff. Really impressive speaker. If you ever get a chance to see her, I highly recommend it.

Moish Peltz [00:07:00]:
All right. That sounds awesome.

Kyle Lawrence [00:07:02]:
All right, next up on the order, Rippling has accused its rival company Deel, not Dell, of corporate espionage in a high stakes tech industry feud. This, the history of these two companies is actually kind of amazing.

Moish Peltz [00:07:15]:
I guess you're right. Deel. And Dell, like that one letter makes a whole lot of difference.

Kyle Lawrence [00:07:19]:
It does. Anybody reading this quick assumed that this is Dell. Like, dude, you're getting a Dell Anyway. Rippling accuses Dell of orchestrating a scheme wherein a Rippling employee in Ireland accessed and Shared confidential information with Deel. This employee allegedly searched for Deel multiple times daily within Rippling's internal systems and access sensitive data unrelated to his job responsibilities. Moish, where does this land on the corporate espionage actions that you've seen in your time as an attorney? Is it a 1 out of or is it 10?

Moish Peltz [00:07:52]:
This one's pretty good. I got to give it like a nine, maybe a nine and a half. I mean to have a good honest corporate spy in your, like your, your venture backed tech rival in your Slack channels, you know, searching for your, your own company, you know, the spying company. And they even, they even had a honeypot operation. I don't know if you heard about this, but Rippling set up a honey pot where they created a fake Slack Slack channel and then they sent a demand letter to Deel's leadership saying, you know, we've been informed about our suspicions that there's corporate espionage going on, including this fake Slack channel. And then of course, like the only people that received that letter, again, this is all alleged right immediately after the letter was received, of course, the spy went in and started searching only for this fake Slack channel that only someone that had received that letter could possibly know about.

Kyle Lawrence [00:08:51]:
Incredible.

Moish Peltz [00:08:52]:
So it's just like these little details that came into the complaint, which again is only one side of the story. We'll wait and hear what Deel has to say, but are just extraordinary. And then the best part I thought was when, I don't know if this best part, the worst part, when the employee was confronted, the spy to. To give up his phone, to surrender his phone as part of the investigation, subject to a court order. He allegedly locked himself in the bathroom, tried to flush his phone down the toilet, which I don't think worked, and then like ran away.

Kyle Lawrence [00:09:29]:
It doesn't work.

Moish Peltz [00:09:31]:
It doesn't? I haven't tried it. I'm glad to know that, you know, that doesn't work.

Kyle Lawrence [00:09:35]:
I saw Goodfellas. It doesn't work. Oh, that was cocaine.

Moish Peltz [00:09:41]:
So what do you think? I mean, like this, this is the. To me, we've been talking a lot about trade secrets in the context of AI or just trade secrets generally I think are really undervalued. This kind of hidden area of which falls into intellectual property law. And I just think it's kind of like this crazy circumstance that you usually don't see these in terms of your cases. But it's just so dramatic.

Kyle Lawrence [00:10:05]:
See, when I hear things like this and I look up these two companies, these are HR companies that are worth tens of billions of dollars, which is Insane given their market. But I bet this is the kind of thing that is more prevalent than we think it is. I mean this is obviously just coming out. But when you're talking about that kind of money, I mean you see the lengths that people go to defend their assets. You throw a B on there and people do all kinds of really shady things. There's probably more of this than we realize.

Moish Peltz [00:10:36]:
Yeah, well, I mean bringing it back to crypto, there is a huge, you know, like concern about fake software engineers, like North Koreans applying to jobs so they could infiltrate companies and like change active code. So like it's same, same idea, right? This is a bit more in the venture backed like non crypto world. But yeah, I think this has to happen quite a bit more than people realize. And so it's probably incumbent on a lot of people, a lot of employers to have some level of monitoring for something like this. Sad. But I guess the reality, I mean.

Kyle Lawrence [00:11:11]:
You're a titan of industry, you're the co managing partner of the firm, you know all about it.

Moish Peltz [00:11:16]:
Yeah, exactly. Hopefully no one's flushing their phone down the toilet.

Kyle Lawrence [00:11:23]:
You can't do it. I told you.

Moish Peltz [00:11:27]:
Anyway. All right, our next topic on the order. A16Z has proposed a safe harbor amongst several other frameworks that they've been very active in proposing to the SEC since the crypto task force that the SEC has basically made a call for papers. So they've proposed for clear rules around NFTs including proposing a framework that would protect creators and clarify how securities laws should apply when NFTs are raising money or being sold. So Kyle, what do you think of A16Z's proposal for the NFT safe harbor?

Kyle Lawrence [00:12:07]:
I think it's a decent start. I think this is, you know, we're hearing a lot of proposals as to how these things are going to be governed and regulated. We just talked about the Genius act, there's the Market Structure act that Congress is working on. This seems kind of to be, you know, mishmash of some of those concepts. Specifically the test that A16Z is proposing is, is three pronged. It's the NFT represents ownership of a unique identifiable asset. The transaction does not grant post sale interest in the creator or third parties. And three, the NFT is not marketed as an investment promising profits from the creator's ongoing efforts.

Kyle Lawrence [00:12:43]:
And this one is, it seems like very on the nose because so many of these enforcement actions that we saw coming out in the recent years were, well, we can't fit you into an investment contract but you were on Twitter boasting about profitability of your assets. So therefore your marketing is security. So that one seems to be a direct shot at the, you know, the prior sec. I mean, I think it's a little thin. I think it's a good start. You know, they're also looking at, you know, crowdfunding regimes, NFTs as tools for ownership, not investment schemes. I think in a lot of ways you do have a hard time separating those two things from the user's perspective. Because the reality is most people, not all, but most people are buying NFTs as an investment, not because they love the art.

Kyle Lawrence [00:13:28]:
Just my anecdotal view on that, not to say everybody, but a lot.

Moish Peltz [00:13:34]:
Right? But so long as the creator of the NFT isn't marketing it as something that's going to be profitable because they're going to work really hard to make it profitable for them, it's like, yeah, I'm releasing art, it might go up in value. That's up to you. You can buy, you can sell it, you can not do those things. But I'm not going to try and. But the problem, I think, and the reality is a lot of creators say, I'm going to bring tons of, you know, like, where is the, where's the line there? Right? I'm going to bring tons of value to this ecosystem. There was, I think one of the, maybe it was stoner cats is like, we're going to be the next Disney. There's those kinds of statements which I think are made, like, with, well, intentions. Right? The flip side, right, is people selling things and then just like doing a rug pull and like running away and like, there's no commitment to the project.

Moish Peltz [00:14:26]:
And so there has to be a way for more than just like, artists, but like creators and entrepreneurs to signal that they are going to have ongoing efforts, that they are going to drive value, that they are going to be committed to the project. Not necessarily to, like, put money in your pocket, but to just to show good faith. Without that, it's like there. I think I'm struggling here because I think there needs to be this framework, but what the details and how it works and whether we need kind of exemptive relief because it looks a lot like a security. That's the question, right?

Kyle Lawrence [00:15:01]:
Yeah. Like I said, I think it's a good start, but it's a little thin, but I think it'll, you know, I think they're on the right path and these guys are always at the forefront of these kinds of things. So glad to See?

Moish Peltz [00:15:11]:
Yeah. And then the calling back to the event at the Digital Chamber is, you know, we had Hester Peirce there and we had several GCs of NFT companies that we, that we saw speak and these are the kinds of things that are keeping up. And I know that they're trying to get past and Congress and there's like an NFT act that we've discussed in the show previously that is kind of slowly snaking its way through Congress, but I don't think it's really a priority for 2025. But these are things that are being worked on, which is cool.

Kyle Lawrence [00:15:39]:
Moving right along. President Trump on Friday pardoned three co founders of the exchanged Bitmex, Benjamin Dilo, Arthur Hayes and Samuel Reed, who had previously pled guilty in 2022 for failing to implement a bank secrecy act compliant anti money laundering program and a know your customer program. KYC rules. The prosecutors had alleged that Bitmex advertised as a place where customers could use its platform anonymously without providing basic KYC information. Following the pardon, DLO said this full and unconditional pardon is a vindication of the positions we have always held that Bitmex, my co founders and I should never have been charged with a criminal offense through an obscure antiquated law. Incidentally, they were tried by the Southern District of New York, the same office that had charged and convicted Trump. You know, Moish, what do you think about this? Is the BSA in antiquated laws and something that we can just wave off and say we don't really need to worry about this anymore or is it something we need to comply with?

Moish Peltz [00:16:40]:
All right, well, it's a loaded question. Yes, the BSA is a law on the books and yes, we need to comply with it. And yes, you need to have a compliant anti money laundering program and yes, you need to do KYC where appropriate. And so yeah, 100%. That's the starting point. Yeah, whoops. Record scratch. Those things exist.

Moish Peltz [00:17:03]:
You need to develop a program to be compliant with them. Even if you can get pardoned, you know, years after the fact, this guy was tried and convicted, you don't want to be him. The SDNY was the same office as they charging and convicting Trump. He said it was also the same office that charged and convicted SBF. You know, there's, there's, and some other people, some other folks. All right, but all that said, the BSA was enacted in 1970. The BSA was enacted in 1970 with a dollar threshold of $10,000. That is that if you were doing Activity below that threshold.

Moish Peltz [00:17:39]:
You didn't need to report it. If it was above that threshold, you did. Now, Kyle, can you gander a guess what the present value of $10,000 of 1970 dollars is here in 2025?

Kyle Lawrence [00:17:52]:
$115,000.

Moish Peltz [00:17:54]:
Yeah, we were looking at it before the show, so 130.

Kyle Lawrence [00:17:57]:
I know, but I didn't want to give that away.

Moish Peltz [00:17:59]:
I know.

Kyle Lawrence [00:17:59]:
I was going to go with the actual guess I had.

Moish Peltz [00:18:05]:
All right, so that's. That's a 10x increase, right? More a 13x increase. And it's insane because now any. This is the same thing that people need to, like, pay taxes on, like, their $400 on, like, Etsy or whatever. It's the same idea. It's ridiculous. If people are going to have high dollar amounts that are moving money, that's where the KYC BSA obligations come in. Every $10,000 transaction when it was really intended to be, you know, probably like almost a quarter million dollars at this point and is ridiculous.

Moish Peltz [00:18:37]:
It's just the threshold's too small and the law is antiquated because they haven't kept up the threshold with inflation.

Kyle Lawrence [00:18:46]:
That's a fair enough argument. Did you know. And I knew this. I didn't have to look this up. In Nashville, it is illegal to stop on the sidewalk and tie your shoes. That is an obscure antiquated law. The Bank Secrecy Act. Maybe a little dated, but not having any KYC at all.

Kyle Lawrence [00:19:06]:
It's not like they were just, you know, what is. What's the expression on the balls of their ass? They just didn't have it. And it's not like they didn't know they didn't need to have it. They just didn't do it. So who's next? You mentioned SBF. Is he just gonna be like, well, I'm. I just, you know, I use QuickBooks, sorry, oops. And get pardoned.

Kyle Lawrence [00:19:24]:
Like, I think this opens Pandora's box a little bit.

Moish Peltz [00:19:29]:
Well, that's. I think that's a good point. Is. Is, well, we're charging people under old antiquated laws. So if they get away with things because the laws are old and antiquated, we need to update the laws. Like, it's not like, oh, let's just let them do crime. Like, that's not the right answer. Like, it's in the name of the law.

Moish Peltz [00:19:45]:
It's the Bank Secrecy act, and we're using it to charge crypto crimes. That's ridiculous. We need the Crypto Secrecy act if that's what we're trying to do here and we can't get that because it's like 52 years old.

Kyle Lawrence [00:20:03]:
We love him here at Block and Order guys. He's the best.

Moish Peltz [00:20:06]:
Oh, man, you know how to. You know how to make you feel good right here. The.

Kyle Lawrence [00:20:09]:
The trying man. Yeah.

Moish Peltz [00:20:10]:
The again applause is like top notch. Thank you.

Kyle Lawrence [00:20:13]:
Thank you, Moish. We finally made it. It is time for the fabled lightning round. Sorry, I'm like a child. You can't give me this.

Moish Peltz [00:20:23]:
I'm so happy. This. This is fantastic. If anyone has any sounds that they want to hear on Kyle's pad, you know, send them in.

Kyle Lawrence [00:20:29]:
Oh, I'm going to program it, don't you worry.

Moish Peltz [00:20:31]:
Oh, I was worried. All right. Well, our first lightning topic is the IRS rule repeal. The US Senate has voted 70 to 28 to repeal an IRS rule that expanded the definition of a broker for tax reporting purposes. A move which was criticized by the blockchain industry for potential potentially stifling innovation and requiring everyone to be a broker, which didn't make any sense. So the rule was originally from President Biden's infrastructure bill, required certain DeFi participants to collect and report user data making basically making them a reporting obligation for everyone that ever used the protocol, whether or not they knew they were US citizen or not. It was insane. It was repealed.

Moish Peltz [00:21:11]:
Fantastic. I mean, what do we think, Kyle? Like, is there anything else to say here?

Kyle Lawrence [00:21:15]:
I mean, not much. I mean, earlier I took the position that the BSA was a viable piece of legislation that everybody needs to adhere to. So here I kind of have to take the same position. No, I don't. I agree with this move that was. It was too over broad, too much.

Moish Peltz [00:21:28]:
Yeah, I think, I think to play devil's advocate, our tax partners would say, you know, you need like, if people are getting income, there needs to be withholding and they need to be like tracking this and doing reporting stuff. And I think all that's true. Like, this is one of those things where it can't just be crime season, it can't just be like non payment of tax season. But we still don't have rules for how DeFi and other protocols are supposed to do tax reporting. And you know, it's been a few years since we discussed this, so sounds like we're going to have to try again. And we heard some interesting thoughts about how if this passes, which sounds like it's going to be signed by President Trump any day now, this actually prohibits Congress from enacting it the same way they did before, they need to actually know pass legislation to have this kind of rule. So that'll be interesting to see if Congress actually gets the ability to pass something on tax reporting, brokerage kind of rules.

Kyle Lawrence [00:22:26]:
We'll see, let's hope so. Next up, our good old friends at Burwick Law are up to their old tricks. Class action lawsuit has been filed in the Supreme Court in New York alleging that Kelsier Ventures, Meteora and Kit Protocol orchestrated a deceptive and manipulative launch of the LIBRA token. Hey, remember that? The complaint claims the defendants misled investors by promoting the token as a legitimate economic initiative while secretly employing a one sided liquidity model that allowed insiders to siphon 107 million from retail purchasers leading to a 94% collapse in the token's value. Moish, forget about LIBRA, who made Burwick Law the arbiter of all these things?

Moish Peltz [00:23:05]:
Look, I, I think any plaintiff's law firm that puts their head on their shoulders and understands what's going on in the space sees there's a lot of opportunity for plaintiff suits. Plaintiffs class action suits. So I mean look, game, respect game. I mean they're, they, they're seeing an opportunity and they're jumping in. The problem is the facts here are just terrible. Right, I agree. I don't, I don't know enough about what actually happened behind the scenes. So everything here is alleged, you know the complaint.

Moish Peltz [00:23:36]:
But I, I know separately there was a meme about someone in one of the founders of the LIBRA project said something about along the lines of, you know, it's time to max extract from this one. Yeah, things like that. Right. So there were a lot of facts and circumstances that were surrounding this one that people raised their eyebrows about. And I mean here we are, we're in the United States, people are going to sue. You better be prepared. We got a class action that's going to try and delve into here and see what happens.

Kyle Lawrence [00:24:06]:
What is it? 95% of the world's lawsuits are all filed in the United States or something like that. It's good. Good job guys. Leading the world in something.

Moish Peltz [00:24:14]:
Keep it up.

Kyle Lawrence [00:24:15]:
Yeah.

Moish Peltz [00:24:17]:
All right, our next lightning topic. The SEC has clarified its stance on proof of work mining, stating that some activities are not considered securities, including protocol mining, as the process of mining crypto assets that are integral to the operation of public permissionless networks. So Kyle, I mean on the one hand, this is such a basic concept of mining proof of work crypto is not securities transaction. Why should anyone have to say that versus hey, isn't it nice that The SEC comes in and provides clarity and says what we're all thinking.

Kyle Lawrence [00:24:52]:
Yeah, I mean it's, it's so obvious it almost didn't need to be said. But it's curious as to why it's only limited to this. Why aren't they talking about staking? I mean, I guess they're still working on that. Obviously staking is a little bit more complicated. We have had some rules on the tax side specifically coming out about staking, but, you know, obvious statement is obvious kind of thing. I'm glad to see that they said it. So now we just can cross it off the list, I guess.

Moish Peltz [00:25:17]:
Yeah, I mean, that's right. I mean it's, it's really interesting what they did not say. Right. Including, you know, proof of stake type transactions. But I do think there's some of the detail here about, you know, what type of proof of proof of work mining activities are addressed in this statement and the types that are excluded or that need to be analyzed more specifically, including, you know, different compensation models, pool operation in different participation structures, which in theory could be part of securities transactions. One would think, since they're not explicitly excluded and require more of a facts based analysis.

Kyle Lawrence [00:25:57]:
Right. And of course, not to be outdone, Commissioner Carolyn Crenshaw critiqued the statement arguing that minors participate solely for awards, blah, blah, blah.

Moish Peltz [00:26:07]:
I think we should just stop. I mean, like, just come on now. We should, we should have ChatGPT start doing a dissent.

Kyle Lawrence [00:26:17]:
Yeah, I mean, they may as well have just read the room. Come on. What are you talking about? Sorry, my camera's following me.

Moish Peltz [00:26:23]:
Crypto task force is doing, is doing tasks. Let them task on, buddy.

Kyle Lawrence [00:26:26]:
Yeah. Last up, Ripple and the SEC have settled their long standing feud with one another. The SEC is set to drop its appeal against Ripple, marking a significant victory for the company and the broader crypto industry as a whole. I mean, are there any left at this point? I mean, after all the suits that have been dismissed and settled in the past couple of weeks, I'm not even sure what's still out there. Well, the Binance one was paused. They didn't terminate that one, so that one's still lingering out there. And of the original $125 million fine, the SEC is keeping 50 million bucks. Not bad.

Kyle Lawrence [00:26:59]:
Payday. 75 goes back to Ripple, so. Great stuff, Moish. You know, I'm not sure where. I'm not sure what else there is to say about this. We've covered the, we covered the suit when the decision came out from the SDNY a couple years ago from Judge Torres about, you know, programmatic sales and institutional sales. And now here we are. We can close the book on this.

Moish Peltz [00:27:21]:
Well, that makes me a little sad because I was looking forward to the appeal of the Second Circuit and seeing if the second Circuit would back the decision on summary judgment and whether institutional sales and consumer sales, if it would come out the same on appeal. So we're not going to get the benefit of that appeal. We're not going to get the benefit of all the cases that have dismissed. Many of them could have been or would have been appealed, and we're just not going to get that. And I mean, even looking back at the LIBRARY case. Right. LIBRARY just ran out of money and couldn't appeal. So, you know, we haven't really gotten judicial certainty at the appellate level.

Moish Peltz [00:28:03]:
And so, yes, all these cases are gone. I think that's great. I think a lot of these cases shouldn't have been brought in the first place. But now that we have all these summary judgment decisions and orders and motion, motion to orders on motions to dismiss, like, it would have been nice to get some clarity at the appellate level that we won't get now. But like shaking hands and, you know, dusting off their trousers and going on. Yeah, the next game.

Kyle Lawrence [00:28:27]:
Have chat GPT write the appellate decision there.

Moish Peltz [00:28:31]:
Yeah, we should do that. I mean, I think it was fully briefed, right? It was fully briefed and argued.

Kyle Lawrence [00:28:35]:
Next time, I guess. Well, that wraps it up for this edition of Block. In order, don't forget to like and subscribe to our channel. And please subscribe to all our socials. Links are down below in the show notes. Please note that this show is meant for informational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing is meant to be construed as legal and or financial advice. Please hire your own representatives if you're going to take the plunge.

Kyle Lawrence [00:28:55]:
Neither the discussion of nor the fact that Moish and I may own any of the assets we discuss on the show is meant to serve as an endorsement of such assets in any way. Very special thank you to producer Shaun. Without him, the show would not be possible. On behalf of Moish Peltz, I'm Kyle Lawrence. Take care, everybody.

Moish Peltz [00:29:10]:
See you next time.