Kyle Lawrence [00:00:00]:
Crypto runs the table. Moish and I reveal our deepest wishes and holy cow, Number go up. Coming up next on Block and Order. Welcome to Block and Order, the show that explores the legal issues facing the world of Web3 and beyond. I'm Kyle Lawrence and with me as always, he is feeling the thunder. Mr. Moish Peltz, everybody.

Moish Peltz [00:00:26]:
Baboom. Hey, Kyle, how you doing?

Kyle Lawrence [00:00:29]:
Doing well, man. I love your shirt.

Moish Peltz [00:00:31]:
Oh, thank you. Yeah, I don't know if you can see it, but it says feel the thunder.

Kyle Lawrence [00:00:36]:
Very apropos these days.

Moish Peltz [00:00:38]:
Yeah, I was going to say feel the thunder. We have bitcoin has hit something like seven consecutive all time highs this week. It's feeling good.

Kyle Lawrence [00:00:47]:
What's the price at right now? I'm just out of curiosity. I haven't looked in about 17 minutes, so I'm curious as to what it is right now.

Moish Peltz [00:00:55]:
All right, you guess and I'll tell you.

Kyle Lawrence [00:00:57]:
I'm going to guess. 91, lower. Oh, wow. Yeah, look at that. 89.776. Oh God, the good times are.

Moish Peltz [00:01:04]:
Oh, I have 90.52. So you have 87.

Kyle Lawrence [00:01:08]:
89.776. 89.7. Yeah.

Moish Peltz [00:01:12]:
I guess we're looking at different markets.

Kyle Lawrence [00:01:14]:
I guess so. Look at that. That means they're both wrong.

Moish Peltz [00:01:19]:
Somewhere around 90,000 as we record this.

Kyle Lawrence [00:01:21]:
That's a good sign. Well, Moish, in sort of honor of the fact that we have a new administration coming in. I don't know if honor is the right word, but do in fact have a new administration coming in. We just had the launch of our second season. We were really blessed to have SEC. Commissioner Hester Peirce a guest on the show last time, which was just a marvelous experience for all of us. I hope she enjoyed it as well. And I think that leads us into somewhat of a slightly different episode than what we normally do where we have the point, counterpoint, you know, PTI style, back and forth of the, you know, topics du jour.

Kyle Lawrence [00:01:56]:
We're going to do a little bit of that today, but I think we're going to focus more on kind of where we are and where we're going go now that there's sort of new frontier laid out before us. So, you know, Moish, why don't you kick off sort of our newfangled order today with, you know, our Hester Review and Wishlist.

Moish Peltz [00:02:13]:
So look, we had Hester Peirce on our show a couple weeks ago and from that, which you're right, that was an amazing experience and we were all, it was incredible to have her on and to hear her extremely candid answers to everything we asked. She didn't shy away from anything after our show concluded. And hat tip to Veronica Irwin and Laura Shin and the Unchained crypto team, they covered our show and they published an article titled Trump promised clear crypto regulations, but the SEC might not be prepared to give them. And I'm not even sure we kind of take away from our recording that this idea that Hester had said that the SEC was kind of hadn't prepared the next administration to give good guidance. So I think. And then Hester ultimately replied to that article, at least on the Twitter, the tweet of it, and pushed back a little bit. So you can go there, we'll link the article and you can go read for yourself. But one thing that she did say, basically, was that it's on us, it's on the industry, it's on the legal people in the industry to think up, you know, what, what are the things that we want to propose get accomplished in a new political era.

Moish Peltz [00:03:33]:
And of course, she recorded the episode before the election.

Kyle Lawrence [00:03:36]:
Right.

Moish Peltz [00:03:37]:
But I think either way, we're having this conversation now. We're having a very specific conversation. So, Kyle, I mean, what homework do do we as the industry need to do? I mean, what's, what's your wish list for what can be accomplished in the next few years?

Kyle Lawrence [00:03:50]:
It's a great question. And I think that if you were to ask me, as you just did, the first thing I would want to do is make sure that the SEC's mission of investor protection is really front and center. And we talked about with the commissioner last time, the SEC has a thing of investor protection, but that kind of runs afoul of innovation and it gets in the way and forces companies who are so afraid of regulation to go overseas or just to abandon their projects altogether. And I think that what they really need to focus on, how do we in fact protect these investors without compromising the level of innovation that we can see in the space without seeing the creativity and the entrepreneurship and just all these people who are doing these really wonderful new things and building on new technologies? I mean, that's how we advance. And I think that's the key investor protection without damaging the good work that other people are doing? That would be number one for me. Moish, what would be number one for you? It's a great question. Thank you.

Moish Peltz [00:04:46]:
Well, it's funny because you're saying, well, investor protection, but also innovation. I'm pretty sure that's like the mission.

Kyle Lawrence [00:04:51]:
Of The SEC it is, but they.

Moish Peltz [00:04:53]:
Screw up, but they just haven't done it, at least in this industry. Yeah. Okay. So for me, I mean, look, I'm the IP guy, I love NFTs. For me, it's really providing guidance on when an NFT is and is not a security and then either allowing some sort of regulatory sandbox that know, Hester Peirce is one of the persons that has proposed this or like a crypto version of, you know, some, some securities offering like a Reg CF or Reg A where there's, there's significantly relaxed rules, there are disclosures and you know, what you're buying into. But once you check the box and get up those minimal rules, you should then have the ability to raise capital up to like some, you know, reasonable amount and then do the Matt Levine.

Kyle Lawrence [00:05:44]:
Right.

Moish Peltz [00:05:44]:
You know, check the box of. I understand I'm throwing my money away and never going to see it again. I would love to see something like that. I know there is an NFT act that's been proposed that would basically see, say NFTs are not securities. I don't know that it does all the other stuff. So I think that's where we could focus.

Kyle Lawrence [00:06:00]:
Okay, yeah, that's a good answer. Yeah, I'm on board with that. The other thing I think I would like to see is, I've probably talked about this on the show before and you've certainly heard me complain about it is the Sarbanes Oxley Act, for example, was the wrong thing but for the right reason. The idea behind it was correct. They wanted to protect investors. It was in the wake of Enron and Tyco and some of those other very high profile economy impacting scandals and collapses. But what we cannot do is have such a wide sweeping piece of legislation comes out that uniformly treats all of these assets the same. They're not.

Kyle Lawrence [00:06:37]:
And that's something that I, you know, hope that with the crypto, you know, the crypto force behind this legislation that they're teaching Congress how this all works so we can have stablecoin legislation, something to address NFTs, as you just said, something that can address, you know, DeFi, but just it has to be separated. It cannot be lumped in together. That would be just catastrophic if they do that.

Moish Peltz [00:07:00]:
Yeah. And they're just like, look, I've seen other proposals for tax fixes and gutting the broker regs and things like the Bank Secrecy Act. And this is also like just taking a step away from the SEC itself and thinking, well, it's not just the SEC that needs reform as approaching crypto. It's also treasury, and every regulatory agency that touches crypto could have a change. So, look, I think this is basically. I asked you, Kyle, I'd like to ask the audience, I think this is an open, open call, right? If there's something that you're working on, I would love for someone to come on the show and tell us, like, you know, what are you working on? What are you planning to. To reach out into the world and, and say, hey, you know, this is what we need to do, and here's actual, like, concrete legislation that we can start wedging into the political system and saying, hey, you need to consider this. And here's why.

Moish Peltz [00:07:57]:
Because I think we're going to have a window to do that. Probably not. Like, I think if it's going to happen, it needs to happen now. It needs to happen in the next hundred days, not in like a year. Right. Otherwise we kind of lose the thread.

Kyle Lawrence [00:08:10]:
Momentum is key. You definitely want to seize upon it. Yeah.

Moish Peltz [00:08:13]:
All right, so our next topic is again, staying on the political, political train here. So, look, crypto raised about $135 million to spend in different U.S. you know, Senate and House races. And it seems like there are about 48 races where these different super PACs spent money. And it looks like they went basically 100, like, percent. They hit 48 of 48. I think they. They did what they intended to do.

Moish Peltz [00:08:45]:
Now, I know Fair Shake and a few of these other super PACs targeted these campaigns in, in a way that they knew they had a pretty high chance of success. Personally, I think it's kind of a shame that there's so much money in politics, but these are the rules we have, this is the industry we have, and this is the result we achieved. So, Kyle, what do you think? Is crypto now a real player in the political industry, by virtue of industry just spending tons of money to get these legislative outcomes?

Kyle Lawrence [00:09:17]:
Well, you stole my thunder a little bit when you said you wish there wasn't so much money in these races. But you're right. I mean, don't hate the player, hate the game. That's just the reason. Reality of the world we live in. If you have a lot of money to spend, chances are you're going to do all right in these elections, especially following, you know, Citizens United. It's just the way it is. I don't make the rules.

Kyle Lawrence [00:09:36]:
But to answer your question directly, how could you possibly deny that? Look at the. Look at the. Just the outflow of support that this industry Has. I mean, when Trump was at Bitcoin Nashville earlier this year, people were going crazy for it. Not just there, but everybody in the industry was so excited because love him or hate him, he is a one of the most well known people in the world shining a bright light on this industry and only good things can come from that. And this is more ripple effects from that. And regardless of who won the election, obviously with Trump it's going to be a little bit more favorable, presumably than it would have been under, under a President Harris administration. But you know, be that as it may, there is this belief that the whole world is going to kind of open up and the US Is going to be not only more welcoming of, you know, people trying to capitalize in this industry and sell these assets and partake in innovation and do wonderful things, that this is just a no brainer for me.

Kyle Lawrence [00:10:35]:
I can't see how crypto isn't here to stay. I mean, especially when you run the table like this, 100% of all the elections that you backed, I mean, I don't know, that's pretty good. I'm not an accountant, but I'd say they did pretty well.

Moish Peltz [00:10:47]:
It's a pretty good hit rate. 100% is pretty good.

Kyle Lawrence [00:10:50]:
It's better than I got.

Moish Peltz [00:10:51]:
Yeah, look, I think there's some big names. I think most notably is Sherrod Brown being unseated by Bernie Moreno and who is a former crypto executive. And so that's sending a message, I think shockwaves perhaps through the political apparatus. So I, yeah, I mean, I guess the question is, is this momentum going to be continued and pushed through?

Kyle Lawrence [00:11:21]:
Right.

Moish Peltz [00:11:22]:
You know, now that we have people in these seats in that that are going to be backing the industry and this is something, you know, we heard, you know, harkening back to what you mentioned about Bitcoin Nashville is, I think sandwiching the Trump speech was basically different people. I think one of them was Edward Snowden. One of them was one of the organizers of I think a bitcoin core developer and basically saying as part of that speech that be careful what you wish for. Don't trust these politicians coming up and saying everything that they're going to be saying. And I think there's some of that too. Let's be optimistic, but let's also be skeptical. Let's make sure that there's no kind of letting the guard down, saying, hey, we spent the money, we got the people and we want in there. Let's just let them kind of take care of business.

Moish Peltz [00:12:11]:
I think there is now this, like, okay, we're going to have perhaps a political apparatus that's going to listen to us, but we need to now, like, speak and say what we want and still kind of push that ball. And I think, I think the reaction that was so extreme here is really a counter, like all this money was raised and was spent because of what happened under the, prior to current administration. Right. So, so we got to keep going. Right? It's. It job's not over.

Kyle Lawrence [00:12:41]:
Well, I think you hit the nail on the head before when you were saying that this legislation needs to happen relatively sooner. You know, one, for momentum purposes, but two, just due to the election cycle in this country, it's not going to be that long of a time before we're already talking about midterms. And if this legislation hasn't been done at that point, you wonder if it will during Trump's administration. Just quite honestly, I mean, I don't think anybody, anybody in this country anymore is, I hesitate to use the word naive, but naive enough to think that when somebody's running for office, they say, here's a thousand things I'm going to do that they're going to do all of them. It's not possible, even in the best of terms. And I'd be saying the same thing if, you know, if Harris had won. So if, you know, if, listen, if Trump can get through a fifth of what he promised at that conference, I mean, that would be good for the industry no matter what. So we'll see.

Kyle Lawrence [00:13:29]:
We'll see.

Moish Peltz [00:13:31]:
Well, turning to our next topic while we're on it, I mean, what, what promises, what first day promises do you think are actually achievable on day one? Right. So one of them we spoke about with, with Commissioner Peirce, I guess maybe indirectly is fire, firing Gary Gensler. Right. Which I think there's been some pushback that. Well, you can't really fire him. You can demote him and appoint another chair, but he's not really fire-able except for good cause. Like. Well, I think the industry would say there probably is good cause.

Moish Peltz [00:14:03]:
So I, I'm imagining that the political people might as well. The other one, I think is interesting and I wanted to ask you about is the strategic bitcoin reserve. So, Kyle, I mean, how realistic do you think it is to have a bitcoin strategic reserve? Do you think this actually happened? Do you think this is just like a symbolic thing? Or you think the Senator Lummis' Bitcoin Act, where we're going to put 5% of the total bitcoin supply into the, into reserves actually going to happen. What do you think?

Kyle Lawrence [00:14:31]:
I mean, I wish I had the crystal ball and could determine whether or not it will happen. I know it's a very popular initiative and if it goes through, there is a belief that if they do establish this reserve, which, you know, what is, maybe we'll back up a second. What is this reserve? It is a strategic reserve is a stock of a systematically important input which can be released to manage serious disruptions in supply. Most famously, you see this with oil, obviously.

Moish Peltz [00:14:59]:
Gold dealership.

Kyle Lawrence [00:15:00]:
Exactly.

Moish Peltz [00:15:01]:
Gold reserve Fort Knox.

Kyle Lawrence [00:15:03]:
Yeah, exactly. All the gold in your Fort Knox. So that's basically what bitcoin would do. It'd be a hedge against inflation. It would be a hedge against, you know, strong fluctuations in the value of the dollar. Most simply put, I know it's more complicated than that, but just for our listeners, that's basically what it is. And the reality is that if that were to happen now, I mean, you're seeing these price quotes about bitcoin just skyrocketing into half a million dollars per token, you know, if something like that were to happen. And I think that something like that is easy to achieve, it's not something that I think would require a significant amount of bureaucratic red tape to cut through.

Kyle Lawrence [00:15:38]:
And it's the kind of thing that could just generate real shockwaves into this ecosystem. One, because I mean crypto people in the US will do backflips if that happens. Who doesn't want to see the value of their portfolio go up like that? And two, just what it would mean for the US dollar. It would really put the United States at the forefront of this kind of tech. Now this is not without its detractors. You know, Mike Novogratz, the founder of Galaxy Digital, says that doing this would kind of create almost a bitcoin's, a bitcoin arms race, almost like a cold war kind of effect that you saw back in the early 80s, you know. And listen, he's a smart guy and it's an interesting counterpoint to what Trump and his supporters have been talking about doing with bitcoin. So you know, Moish, with that in mind, with what Mike Novogratz said, what do you think? Is this a good idea? Aside from the price considerations, is this a good idea for us to do this or does bitcoin belong to the entire world as opposed to just us?

Moish Peltz [00:16:36]:
I think it is a good idea and I think it's relatively realistic for some version of this to happen. Why Do I think it's a good idea? Well, I think I can answer both questions. Basically, why is it a good idea and why do I think it's likely to happen? And the reality is the US Government is already the largest holder of bitcoin. So all we have to do is do nothing. Right? Right.

Kyle Lawrence [00:17:03]:
Yeah.

Moish Peltz [00:17:03]:
And they have, they have the reserve, they just have to keep it.

Kyle Lawrence [00:17:06]:
Right.

Moish Peltz [00:17:07]:
So, so, okay, so. So I think, I think they can do that. And, and I, I think further, I mean, like, look, I was looking up the, the strategic oil reserve. It's like. Well, it's not. That's like a reserve and it's like some beer catch like, hey, let's have a reserve. It wasn't an executive order. There's a whole, like, slate of legislation that made that happen.

Moish Peltz [00:17:29]:
And it was very strategic. In the 1970s in response to, you know, oil embargoes and inflation and all these things, I think you're seeing a kind of a similar setup here where, you know, all this inflation is kind of going crazy. People are concerned about runaway inflation and the rising debt. And the debt ceiling is a political football that happens like every two years. I think for all those reasons, like, there's going to be a political, like, outlet. It's like, it's like a steam valve escape of like, let's buy bitcoin. And I think you've seen Michael Saylor has had a lot of success already. And I think, I think you're seeing, you know, him and you said Novogratz are saying they should do this and here's why.

Moish Peltz [00:18:12]:
And these arguments are out there, and I think they're appealing for nation states. And I think you're right. I think once the, if it were the US El Salvador and Bhutan we've already talked about have already had a stockpile.

Kyle Lawrence [00:18:25]:
Right.

Moish Peltz [00:18:25]:
But their stockpiles about like, you know, half a billion or a billion dollars and like peanuts. Right? I mean, that's the, I think that's the question. Like, can the US Actually move in with size? Like, yeah, if they have $10 billion and they keep it like, cool, that's great. That's great for the bitcoin market. But does that make, does that even like, scratch the surface? Yeah. On like our debt position? I mean, can, can like US government actually go in and buy like $100 billion of Bitcoin? And if they did that, like, what would that mean for, for like, other nation states and this arms race and the price of bitcoin, all these. So, like, that's where it kind of gets like silly. It's like fun to imagine.

Moish Peltz [00:19:03]:
I don't think it's like realistic to imagine those. It's like, yeah, that might, if that happened, it's going to be like a procedural, step by step kind of process.

Kyle Lawrence [00:19:10]:
But that's, you know, that's something that I always, that's something that I always think about, you know, just kind of philosophically and I sort of teased it a minute ago, which is if they do this and it does in fact drive the price up and everybody would. And the, and their defense, US defenses would be like, well yeah, but look what it did to the price. How awesome is that? You know, for the people in El Salvador and Bhutan and these countries in Africa that are under French's economic or France's economic thumb, it's great for you guys. And they'd be like, well yeah, but you have it all. Like how are we supposed to get it? It's a finite supply. So I think there's going to be a push, pull component to it. And you know, and I don't mean to poo poo the United States efforts here. Listen, we hold bitcoin, that would be great.

Kyle Lawrence [00:19:50]:
But in the global scheme of things I think there's more to consider than just our own economic needs. I know it's America first.

Moish Peltz [00:19:57]:
Yeah, I think that's fair. I think both. That's right. We need to consider more than just our own selfish interests and making money as a country, but also you own Bitcoin. I own bitcoin. Why shouldn't the US government, our law firm owns Bitcoin. Why shouldn't the US Government own bitcoin? So I think increasingly both, both governments and corporates and institutions are going to be asking a question of like not, not if I should own bitcoin, but, but how much should I own?

Kyle Lawrence [00:20:22]:
Right, yeah, good point.

Moish Peltz [00:20:24]:
All right, well, moving on to our lightning round. What better segue than to talk about Michael Saylor? So Michael Saylor tweeted that this year Micro Strategy treasury operations have delivered a bitcoin yield of 26 and change percent improvement providing a benefit of 49,936 bitcoin to our shareholders. That's an equivalent of 157 bitcoin per day, which is effectively equivalent with operating like a large scale bitcoin miner. So Kyle, like I like this is incredible. How's this even possible that this has happened? I mean who looks better today than Michael Saylor in this industry?

Kyle Lawrence [00:21:06]:
Well, arguably, I don't know because recently he Also turned heel and said that, you know, bitcoiners don't need to hold their own private keys. We should try. This is his quote. Trust the government and financial institutions, as those authorities would never confiscate bitcoin held on centralized exchanges. I don't even know where to begin with that.

Moish Peltz [00:21:28]:
I mean, this is the whole dichotomy here of he's the most successful captain of industry from purchasing bitcoin, but he seems to have this really odd position about the whole decentralized, non custodial nature of it itself.

Kyle Lawrence [00:21:45]:
So crazy.

Moish Peltz [00:21:46]:
Yeah, it's crazy. Oh, that's scary. That's scary. I mean, right? You want the winners, the champions of the industry to also believe in the decentralized kind of private key aspect of it, running your own nodes and all those things. And I think, to give him credit, I think he does believe that. But I think he also believes in making money and I think he recognizes that he's making 26% yield on his bitcoin by doing this.

Kyle Lawrence [00:22:16]:
I just, you can't tell bitcoiners to trust the government. They're not going to screw you over. You know, even if you, even if you do believe that the government will not actively screw you over, as I like to think, I even, I wouldn't go that far.

Moish Peltz [00:22:30]:
Yeah. I think that harkens back to our word of caution that just because the political tides seem to be shifting in your favor, don't. Don't drink your own Kool Aid.

Kyle Lawrence [00:22:38]:
No. Exactly. Next up, Stripe has acquired the stablecoin platform Bridge for $1.1 billion, marking the single largest acquisition in the crypto space to date, which I actually thought was hard to believe. I thought there would have been one or two there, a little bit more than that, but no. I learned something today. This strategic move allows Stripe to expand into the blockchain sector, enhancing its payments infrastructure with stablecoin and crypto tech while positioning itself as a key player in the growing digital asset market. You know, Moish, are we going to see a lot more of these, this consolidation in the space with the big players moving in and, you know, race to the top kind of thing?

Moish Peltz [00:23:13]:
Yes.

Kyle Lawrence [00:23:15]:
You heard it, folks.

Moish Peltz [00:23:16]:
Yep, that's it. No, look, there's been a lot of talk about the potential economic benefits of the new administration. I think one of them is definitely the idea that there's going to be a lot more M&A buy sell activity. This was, I think, a pre election transaction. So it's. I, I think though, just a, a preview of what's going to come. And I think with interest rates potentially going down, a more business friendly environment, perhaps the FTC is one of the agencies that might be a little less hostile to transactions happening now within a new administration. I think you're going to see a lot more transactions just generally.

Moish Peltz [00:23:59]:
And I think it would be surprising if we didn't see a lot more crypto M&A transactions happening. I'm surprised that this is the first like basically billion dollar transaction.

Kyle Lawrence [00:24:11]:
Yeah, I couldn't believe that.

Moish Peltz [00:24:14]:
Cool. Congratulations. Stripe. All right, next up, the Securities and Exchange Commission has issued a Wells Notice to Immutable, a blockchain gaming platform, signaling that its investigation into possible violations of security laws. Immutable had criticized SEC's approach, describing it as another one of these regulation by enforcement, series of vague and under research attacks on the firm. And the firm vowed to fight back. So Kyle, I think, I think this was something that I have for you is we have Immutable. Who else is getting a like last day of the year Wells Notice or lawsuit from the SEC before we flip the calendar year and head over to a new SEC administration.

Kyle Lawrence [00:25:01]:
It'd be really funny. We should go on Polymarket and place a bet as to what is going to be in fact the last one that gets filed under Gensler's watch. I think we should do that. It would also be kind of funny. I don't know if funny is the right word, but interesting to note if. When in fact, or if in fact Gary Gensler is no longer with the SEC.

Kyle Lawrence [00:25:20]:
Come next year. If they just file Wells Notices for every single entrant in the space. I don't think they can do that, but it'd be kind of comical if they did. That's one last.

Moish Peltz [00:25:29]:
Yeah, I mean, I still think you need a majority of commissioners to initiate an action. I don't. I don't know. Do you know what the threshold is for sending out a Wells Notice?

Kyle Lawrence [00:25:38]:
That I don't know offhand, actually.

Moish Peltz [00:25:41]:
I mean, yeah, it'd be a little like everyone gets a little stocking stuffer.

Kyle Lawrence [00:25:44]:
Yes. Right. Well, hey, Merry Christmas. Here's a Wells Notice for you. Go have fun.

Moish Peltz [00:25:50]:
Yeah, look, you mentioned Poly Market. I think Polymarket. We saw the CEO actually got his phone seized today by the FBI. Potentially could be another recipient. But we should have a Polymarket market for who receives a Wells Notice before the end of the year.

Kyle Lawrence [00:26:09]:
I love it. I'm all in on it.

Moish Peltz [00:26:10]:
And Immutable has already resolved. Yes. So there you go.

Kyle Lawrence [00:26:14]:
All right. Well, next up, Jimmy Patronis, who definitely dresses up as Harry Weasley on Halloween, he's the Florida CFO, states that the state holds $800 million in crypto related investments and is exploring further expansion into digital assets. Patronis further said he would, quote, not be surprised to see the figure grow under a Trump administration. Shocker there, Moish. I'm surprised more states aren't doing this. I mean, is Florida just that far ahead of the curve? I know you have Miami and all the, you know, a lot of the conferences there and it is something of a hub, but I'm surprised to see not more of this.

Moish Peltz [00:26:46]:
Yeah, there's definitely a Florida man buys bitcoin joke in there somewhere. Look, this ties directly into our segment earlier about the idea that, you know, corporates, institutions, governments are now looking to buy more bitcoin. Why shouldn't states put it on their treasury? Why shouldn't like Microsoft had an investor questionnaire saying, you know, should we or shouldn't we put bitcoin on our balance sheet, right? That's like one of the top five largest companies in the world. So you know, I think, I think it really is this idea that everyone with, you know, spare cash, treasury is now considering, you know, not only should I buy bitcoin as part of my treasury operations, but how much should I buy? And you know, I'd imagine $800 million for the state of Florida is probably not a ton of money, but it's a lot of money. So, you know, there you go.

Kyle Lawrence [00:27:46]:
You can pay for some of the insurance claims.

Moish Peltz [00:27:48]:
Yeah, no, that's. Now there's an idea. Bitcoin backed hurricane insurance. I mean it couldn't be less solvent than the current market.

Kyle Lawrence [00:27:59]:
I just got dropped by my homeowners insurance for no reason because they went out of business and now I have to get new insurance. So yeah, I'm all for it. Let's go bitcoin it up.

Moish Peltz [00:28:10]:
Bitcoin it up here it here first, folks. All right, next topic. The US government was hacked for $20 million. That is there was a cyber attack resulting in the theft of about $20 million in crypto assets held by the US government, the largest holder of crypto and exploiting vulnerabilities in the government cryptocurrency wallet which was storing funds. But then the sequel here is once this was reported that it was a government wallet, the person who did the exploit returned almost all the funds. So Kyle, if you had stolen funds from the government and then it was on the front page of a crypto newspaper, would you would you keep it or would you return it?

Kyle Lawrence [00:28:51]:
I would definitely keep it. I mean, at that point, you already have it. It's a come and catch me, you know, catch me if you can kind of thing. I mean, I guess, you know, some people love to applaud the person for returning it. It's like when somebody hits your car at the, you know, you're at the store and somebody dings you and they leave a note. It's like, oh, how wonderful. They left a note. No, you're supposed to do that.

Kyle Lawrence [00:29:11]:
It's called living in a society and respecting other people. So, all joking aside, I, one, would have kept it, but two, if I, you know, was going to be arrested, I would probably because I'm a unscrupulous person. I suppose, now that I say it out loud.

Moish Peltz [00:29:23]:
Good god, immediately, oh, my God, I, I stole from the wrong person. You immediately send that back and be like, whoopsies.

Kyle Lawrence [00:29:33]:
I would just go right to Bhutan, be with my people.

Moish Peltz [00:29:35]:
Yeah, just going back to my day job. Didn't happen. Yeah. I mean, look, the, there's, there's the Wired article about ZachXBT. You know, I've seen the capabilities of, you know, former government investigators. You do not want to be holding. Yeah, don't. Just don't.

Moish Peltz [00:29:53]:
Don't do it.

Kyle Lawrence [00:29:54]:
Yeah.

Moish Peltz [00:29:54]:
Return the money.

Kyle Lawrence [00:29:55]:
Fair point.

Moish Peltz [00:29:55]:
All right, and our last topic. The Nigerian court has ordered the release of Tigran Gambaryan, the Binance executive who was wrongly detained and held since earlier in the year in Nigeria. And so apparently his health had deteriorated. His legal team continued to push for his release, and finally he was sent back home, back in the U.S. so congratulations, Tigran, and welcome home. Congratulations and thank you to everyone that worked to get him back home. It's a shame that this happened, a shame that he was imprisoned for so long and really, I hope the current administration for the time has left and the next administration does more to make sure that this does not happen again.

Kyle Lawrence [00:30:44]:
Yeah. And it was a shame. The US response, I know we talked about it on prior episodes. They were not really, you know, putting their best foot forward to try to get him released under what was really dubious circumstances. So, listen, happy for the outcome. Very unfortunate that his health has deteriorated. Deteriorated to the point of I think he's going to have prolonged complications from this. There was a statement from his wife a couple days ago about this.

Kyle Lawrence [00:31:07]:
I mean, that whole thing is a shame. But, you know, thankfully he's. He's out and can resume, you know, living a normal life free of this, you know, this terrible.

Moish Peltz [00:31:16]:
That's nuts.

Kyle Lawrence [00:31:17]:
Yeah, crazy. Crazy. Well, that wraps it up for this very special episode of Block and Order. Don't forget to like and subscribe and follow us on all our socials. Links are down below in the show notes, of course. If you have any comments or any questions for us, please leave comments wherever you can. Block and Order is available on all platforms where podcasts are available, as well as on YouTube. Remember, this show is meant for informational and entertainment purposes.

Kyle Lawrence [00:31:40]:
Purposes only. This is not intended to be legal advice or financial advice. Please hire your own advisors if you're going to take the plunge. Neither discussion of nor the fact that Moish and I may own any of the assets we discuss on the show is meant to serve as an endorsement of them. Buyer beware. Very special thank you to producer Abby. Without her, the show would not be possible. So on behalf of Moish Peltz, I'm Kyle Lawrence.

Kyle Lawrence [00:32:02]:
See you next time, folks.

Moish Peltz [00:32:03]:
See you next time.