Kyle Lawrence [00:00:10]:
Welcome to block and order, the show that explores the legal issues facing the world of web three and beyond. I am a slightly older Kyle Lawrence, and with me, as always, he doesn't know half of you half as well as he should like, and he likes less than half of you half as well as you deserve, Mister Moish Peltz.

Moish Peltz [00:00:27]:
Kyle, that was a mouthful. I don't know how to respond to that except to say happy birthday.

Kyle Lawrence [00:00:31]:
Thank you. I'm just impressed that I got it right in one take. That's not easy, but thank you.

Moish Peltz [00:00:37]:
Yeah, you're welcome.

Kyle Lawrence [00:00:38]:
Our very special post NFT NYC conference episode NfTNYC was last week. It was a slightly different mood than conferences of yesteryear, not as well attended. It's kind of interesting that the conference still focuses on nfts when all the rage today is crypto and meme coins and all these kinds of things. Things. How did you enjoy your conference going adventures over the past week, moish?

Moish Peltz [00:01:02]:
Yeah, you know, it was, I agree with you, it was a little bit more muted. I did like the time when even the muted conference got a lot of social media snapback that this is a muted conference. I don't even think we got the benefit of that this year.

Kyle Lawrence [00:01:18]:
Right.

Moish Peltz [00:01:19]:
Look, I think crypto is interesting because when crypto is going wild, bitcoin is 70,000 plus dollars a coin. You would expect that, you know, the crowd would run wild, people would be running in the streets, and the conference halls would be full. Um, it was a little countercyclical here. Right. I think bitcoin and other major cryptocurrencies are at, or, you know, near all time highs. Maybe down a little bit, but come on. And, and, but nFts are not. Right.

Moish Peltz [00:01:54]:
And so I think when you think about it that way, NFTs really haven't recovered in the same way that.

Kyle Lawrence [00:01:59]:
Right.

Moish Peltz [00:02:00]:
Other kind of segments of the cryptocurrency world have. And I think you kind of felt that in the halls with that said. What I was saying is when, when it gets kind of quiet, the true believers, the people that are doing.

Kyle Lawrence [00:02:14]:
That's true.

Moish Peltz [00:02:14]:
The omens work or there. And we both, I think, had really productive conversations with some really fascinating people throughout the.

Kyle Lawrence [00:02:22]:
It's always the case. Yeah, great point.

Moish Peltz [00:02:24]:
Yeah.

Kyle Lawrence [00:02:25]:
Did you go to a different conference as well, in addition to NFT NYC?

Moish Peltz [00:02:29]:
I did, I did. I went to the chainalysis links conference. Shout out to my friend Andrew, who hooked me up. And you know, that that's a very different type of conference, right? There's a lot. It's a lot more financial focus. It's a lot more law enforcement focused. Both are categories which have been relatively quite busy recently. I will note it is tax day coming up April 15.

Moish Peltz [00:02:59]:
If you have not already thought about that. It's not too late for you. Godspeed your taxes on time, I will say, and this is all, I think, public information. Right. The chainalysis links conference is attended by a lot of government employees. A lot of those government employees that are thinking about cryptocurrency and are thinking about how to trace and track users of cryptocurrency come from the Internal Revenue Service, who are friendly government agents responsible for tracking whether or not you've paid your fair share of taxes. So based on what I saw at that conference, my recommendation would be to. To accurately and fairly file or extend your tax return on or before April 15.

Kyle Lawrence [00:03:46]:
Well, we don't give legal advice here on block and order. That was excellent legal advice.

Moish Peltz [00:03:51]:
It's not legal advice. It's life advice.

Kyle Lawrence [00:03:52]:
It's life advice.

Moish Peltz [00:03:54]:
You know, there's been a lot of people that have gotten, you know, taken down from, by the tax man. Don't let that be the vector.

Kyle Lawrence [00:04:03]:
Al Capone is a life lesson to us all. Well, my friend, it's time to kick off the order for our 11th episode today. Pretty exciting stuff. Lucky number eleven. It's not my lucky number, but close enough. Anyway, kicking us off today, Uniswap. Uniswap Labs received a wells notice from the United States securities and Exchange Commission. The wells notice is basically a preliminary warning that informs you that further charges are coming.

Kyle Lawrence [00:04:30]:
It's like an enforcement appetizer, if you will, and basically just says that it intends to pursue an enforcement action against the platform for offering unregistered securities and acting as an unregistered securities broker. So, moish, do you have any inclination as to what the basis of this notice could be? What's the SEC's game plan here? Do you know?

Moish Peltz [00:04:54]:
I haven't seen the notice. I haven't heard the substance of what the SEC is coming after here. In some respects, this is all speculation, but that's kind of the fun part of this. Right? And I think people are speculating. There's. There's. There's one of two potential avenues for the SEC to be. To be mad at Uniswap, or to think that they violated some of the securities laws.

Moish Peltz [00:05:20]:
One would be the operation of Uniswap itself as some sort of unregistered and unlicensed you know, brokerage or alternative trading system, whatever it may be, which we can get into. And I think the other option is whether the recent enablement of a fee switch, that is, holders of the Uni Uniswap tokens now have the potential to earn a percentage of the fee income that the Uniswap protocol receives. And so that was something that was more recently implemented, from my perspective. I think that makes it the more likely culprit here versus the exchange itself, which has been operating for something like, what, six years? Like, oh, we're the SEC, maybe we should give some guidance on whether or not that's something you can do over the last six years.

Kyle Lawrence [00:06:14]:
You think so?

Moish Peltz [00:06:16]:
We'll see.

Kyle Lawrence [00:06:16]:
Right, so you think it's the fee switch? I think it's the exchange, just because, well, it's kind of the low hanging fruit of all of these enforcement actions. Whether it's been out for six days or six years, the SEC goes after every single one of these platforms for acting as an unregistered securities exchange. What's kind of interesting here is that if that is in fact the case, just last week or a couple of weeks ago, we talked about how the Coinbase wallet, Coinbase actually won that part of their motion and dismissed that part of the action, saying that the wallet was not, in fact, a broker. So if that's what the charges are going to be, at least Uniswap has some legal leg to stand on watch. It's going to come out and both of them are going to be in the actual complaint.

Moish Peltz [00:06:59]:
It's really. Yeah, it's probably both. Everything.

Kyle Lawrence [00:07:05]:
We're both.

Moish Peltz [00:07:06]:
I think that's an excellent point about the Coinbase wallet. I do think that the Uniswap is a protocol versus a wallet. So it's a little bit more of an active kind of intermediate function. But I think, you know, one, I think Uniswap is like one of the most important technologies in crypto. I think it's one of the easiest to use technology, crypto. It's been, it's been forked and copied a bajillion times. It's really important. I think they also have the resources to fight this, and they've said very publicly that they will be fighting.

Moish Peltz [00:07:40]:
This is a really interesting battle, assuming the SEC does actually go forward, and for sure suit here to see how Uniswap, and to see what, you know, what is the complaint, what is the nature of the suit, and also to see Uniswap, which is a very well funded large entity, how they're going to defend this, and that's true. Unfortunate that we're here, but, look, sometimes we complain that the sec kind of picks on the low, hang the minnows, and if you're going to pick on someone in crypto, I think this is the battle you want to see happen.

Kyle Lawrence [00:08:11]:
It's like uniswap is Ivan Drago. So there you go. Go after it.

Moish Peltz [00:08:14]:
Yeah, Rocky.

Kyle Lawrence [00:08:16]:
There you go.

Moish Peltz [00:08:17]:
Fuck. That's the wrong thing. You can cut that, Chris. Yeah, sorry.

Kyle Lawrence [00:08:24]:
You're good.

Moish Peltz [00:08:25]:
All right, so, moving on to our next topic. The bitcoin having is scheduled to occur between April 18 and April 21, 2024. Even though I think we all know it's most likely going to be on the meme date of April 20, probably. Yeah, yeah, no, and I think. I think it's. It's dialed in. The miners are going to, you know, make sure that happens.

Kyle Lawrence [00:08:49]:
They'll make it happen. Yeah.

Moish Peltz [00:08:50]:
And the bitcoin having. What is the bitcoin having? Well, every four years, the amount of bitcoin emitted as a mining reward for each block is reduced in half. So right now, it's currently 6.25 bitcoins per block are received by miners as reward for mining and processing bitcoin transactions. And that amount will drop in half to 3.125. So every 210,000 blocks, that happens. And in the past 2016, 2020, each of those past two halvings, there's been pretty significant price increases within a certain amount of time afterwards. And so this is one of the big stories now in crypto, whether or not there's going to be supply shocks, whether crypto prices are going to be driven up. Kyle, what do you think is that we're in for in store here in April 20, 2024?

Kyle Lawrence [00:09:45]:
Well, look, the stars are certainly aligned to have some kind of price surge. We've have approved ETF's. We have bitcoin coming in at record highs. When everybody keeps asking us at conferences or whenever, it's, what are you bullish on? The answer is bitcoin. Look what's been going on just in the past year, and you alluded to it a second ago. Over the last three halvings, 2012, 2016 and 2020, the prices went up 90 x, 30 x and eight x respectively. That's significant value driving the attention that's being given, the ETF's being approved, and all of the attention that's surrounding bitcoin, including a topic that we have later on in the show. All signs point to everything here being really bullish for bitcoin we can expect to see some pretty sharp price increases.

Kyle Lawrence [00:10:31]:
Not financial advice. We are not financial advisory. We are not endorsing it, and so on and so forth. But nonetheless, look, we're rolling up our sleeves and gearing up for some pretty exciting price action here. D, what do you think?

Moish Peltz [00:10:42]:
Yeah, I think that's right. I do think it's interesting with the retail being involved in the ETF's and it's making this really, really easy on ramp. You don't have to think about what bitcoin is or how it's mined or how you get it into a wallet. You just buy it in your Charles Schwab account. And those people are going to see and hear and read about that they're having and about the mining. And you're exactly right. When you go to conferences, when you talk to relatives, I'm now getting the questions of what is mining? What does that mean? How does it work? In a way that I probably wasn't really talking about since 2021 era. So I think people talk about that.

Moish Peltz [00:11:32]:
The price is reflexive in the sense that, you know, there's going to be this supply shock. People are already interested. The ETF's have already taken a lot of supply off the market, and now this, this is going to have in the supply. People are still mining, people are still holding it in their exchange accounts. Anything can happen. Right. It could go down significantly, too. Right.

Moish Peltz [00:11:54]:
So. But I think the volatility is.

Kyle Lawrence [00:11:56]:
Don't say that. Don't say that out loud. Interesting that you bring up about the questions that you're asked. Because it never really occurred to me until just now that you said it, that nobody ever asks me anymore. It used to be that, well, these things aren't really valued at anything. What are they based on? They're not tethered to any real world assets. It's meaningless. And no one asks me that anymore.

Kyle Lawrence [00:12:16]:
Maybe, you know, sunny skies breed a lot of content with what's going on here. I don't know, it's funny.

Moish Peltz [00:12:23]:
Or Michael Saylor. Just been on CNBC times.

Kyle Lawrence [00:12:27]:
Just hammer that message home. Exactly. Shifting gears a little bit. Everybody's favorite whipping boy, Sam Bankman, fried. The architect of the FTX catastrophe, was sentenced last week in the southern District of New York to 25 years for fraud and money laundering at FTX and is ordered to pay back $11 billion. That's a lot of money. I don't have that in my couch cushions.

Moish Peltz [00:12:49]:
I don't think he does either.

Kyle Lawrence [00:12:50]:
Well, not anymore. SBF was found guilty on all seven counts, including two fraud charges and five conspiracy charges related to his management of FTX and Alameda research. Moish, you're a litigator. What do you think about this sentence? Is it fair? Is it too much? Is it too light? What are your initial reactions to how this went down?

Moish Peltz [00:13:14]:
Yeah, my initial reaction was this seems about right. And the more I think about it, the more I kind of feel that way. Some people were expecting like 30, 40, 50 year sentences. Actually, the betting market, polymarket, I think, had 40 to 50 years as the, as the most likely sentence. And that just seemed like possible, but. But probably overkill.

Kyle Lawrence [00:13:43]:
Right.

Moish Peltz [00:13:43]:
And, you know, the judge, Kaplan, who was the person that handed down the sentence here, basically started off with, you know, under the sentencing guidelines. Right. He should be getting 110 years. That's, that's where it kind of started from. But judges are reluctant to basically, you know, throw someone away and lock away the key. You know, he's going to be in his fifties by the time he gets released from prison. There's no parole in the federal system, you know, so. So he's going to be in jail for most of his adult life, right? Yes.

Kyle Lawrence [00:14:18]:
And, yeah, what's interesting here is while the maximum sentence could have been 110 years, the prosecutors weren't really gunning for that. I think they were pushing for a 40 to 50 year sentence. And that's obviously more than what Elizabeth Holmes got. It's potentially less than what Bernie Madoff got. But when you think of the rhetoric that was surrounding the prosecution and their claims, and we need to make an example of this guy. He's the reason, you know, crypto. He's the face of crypto and failed crypto and retail, all that stuff. Stuff.

Kyle Lawrence [00:14:48]:
But when they come out and they say, well, 40 to 50 years is their sentencing recommendation. They were talking about this on, on the great podcast unchained. I don't want to take credit for it, but they were absolutely right when they said, if that's what the prosecution is gunning for, they obviously don't think it's as serious as they were kind of making it out to be. It's like when you negotiate for a used car, you start as high. They start as high as possible. You go as low as possible. They started at 40 50. The defendants wanted six and a half years.

Kyle Lawrence [00:15:15]:
They split the difference. And Chris Voss somewhere just, you know, burned dollar and effigy. But, you know, but, but that's what happened. And to me, that's really telling as to what they really thought of all this, like, this was, you know, yeah, he was not the most innocent guy, but at the end of the day, he was largely just a moron who did some bad things, as opposed to a guy who was really purposely trying to screw everybody over.

Moish Peltz [00:15:37]:
You know, that's interesting that you took that away from it, because I, you know, the judge, Kaplan, again, who was basically the only person in charge of this decision, really criticized SBF for being evasive and not candid with the court and deflecting blame and not taking responsibility. And he said all that and said, well, it could be 110 years, but then kind of got guided down from there. So I disagree a little bit that the recommendation from prosecution, the prosecutors at 40 to 50 years, means that they were like, well, it's not so serious. I don't think that was really the tenor here, in my opinion. I just think that fundamentally, the judge just thought that the fair sent the right sentence, was. Was what he gave. And as I said, I. As I kind of, like, I've slept on it.

Moish Peltz [00:16:32]:
I. That's. That seems like no one's really gone after, you know, after. After this sentencing been like, I was completely wrong. I think. I think it's been pretty. Pretty much. I guess that's.

Moish Peltz [00:16:42]:
That's fair.

Kyle Lawrence [00:16:43]:
I saw goodfellas. Prison doesn't seem that bad.

Moish Peltz [00:16:45]:
They get to slice the little garlic.

Kyle Lawrence [00:16:47]:
Exactly. That's kind of nice.

Moish Peltz [00:16:50]:
All right, so turning to our next topic, and this is one of the new metas, maybe not new, maybe we should have actually gotten some bitcoin ordinals when they were the new meta. But increasingly, bitcoin ordinals are being considered not just by NFT degenerates and bitcoin aficionados, but also leading investment firms like Franklin Templeton, who recently released a report saying that these have a chance to actually really increase the bitcoin fee revenue that's generated by miners. And so bitcoin ordinals, if you don't know what these are, are essentially a special kind of NFT, which are built on the bitcoin blockchain and are linked to a satoshi. Satoshi is the smallest unit of a bitcoin. And there's a ordinals protocol, which allows new token standards like BRC 20, which is, I think, the primary standard right now, as well as runes, which is a forthcoming standard to allow different types of tokens to trade, all on the bitcoin protocol. And this trading is really taken off over the past few months. And so, Kyle, I mean, do you think that these bitcoin ordinals and other kinds of uses of the bitcoin blockchain are going to propose a material use for bitcoin. Aside from I send bitcoin from me.

Kyle Lawrence [00:18:30]:
To you, I certainly think the stars are aligned for that to happen. It's evidenced by the fact that ordinals surpassed Ethereum and trading volume as of December of last year. The sort of scuttlebutt or criticism, for lack of a better word, that I always heard about bitcoin is you can't do anything with it. It's just a store of value. It doesn't do anything well. Now we're seeing that the proof is in the pudding. That's not the case. Now we're going to develop.

Kyle Lawrence [00:18:57]:
Maybe we'll have a bitcoin brca summer coming up. You couple this with the halving and then the ETF's. It's like all of these things, just bitcoin. It's all bitcoin all day. I think this is really fascinating and interesting. It's not something I was super familiar with all that recently. I've been reading more about it of late, but with everything coming up, the havining coming up, the ETF's that I keep mentioning, this is just fascinating stuff. I'm really curious to see where we are six months from now when the runes are out and there's going to be more assets that we don't even know the names of between now and then.

Moish Peltz [00:19:33]:
Also, do you think that gives bitcoin NFTs ordinals the potential for longer staying power than perhaps Ethereum NFTs that seem to have mostly crashed and not come back, like bitcoin being the original blockchain. Now you have these kind of rare satoshis that are colored coins or things like that that are kind of the earliest digital artifacts on bitcoin. Now you have these new tokens. Maybe this is something that has just more staying power. What do you think?

Kyle Lawrence [00:20:06]:
I think they can learn a lot of lessons from the NFT rise and precipitous crash that they had a couple years ago. I think they're a little more efficiently created in terms of the underlying software and code. I'm not a tech guy, so I can't explain it any better than that, but I think just like in any tech industry, whenever whoever's first is not always the one who lasts, it's the person who comes up behind them and they say, well, this worked for them and that one and that didn't. So let's optimize that strategy, I think you can see the same things play out, and especially when you have a backbone like bitcoin. I mean, that's. There's a lot there to work with, so.

Moish Peltz [00:20:46]:
Yeah, but I think. Double edged sword. I mean, if the. If the user experience. We're not moving away from a frictionless, kind of non crypto native experience. I'm concerned that this might be moving backwards, but in some respects, the technology has also made it a little bit more user friendly. So we'll see.

Kyle Lawrence [00:21:08]:
Okay, another narrow do. Well, in the good old world of web three, Avi Eisenberg, who I liken to Bobby Axelrod, is facing trial for charges in connection to connection with commodities manipulation and fraud. And basically what. What this guy did, he's accused of illegally gaming the mango markets futures contracts by manipulating the price of the MNGo, the mango token, and then effectively borrowing all of Mango's deposits against this position, walking away with over $110 million in cryptocurrency that other people had deposited on the platform, and later returning a portion of that in exchange for a promise the mango's backers would not seek his prosecution, a promise that, needless to say, was not kept. The prosecution alleges that Eisenberg's trades were essentially a scam, comparing it to offering a, quote, beautiful fake diamond ring as collateral for the loan. And Eisenberg's position, as his actions, were basically just gaming the system. He's a self proclaimed game theorist, which to me is a very interesting juxtaposition. Moish, from what you understand of this guy, I think you're a little more negative on him than I am.

Kyle Lawrence [00:22:17]:
But what do you think is going to happen to him? You think they're going to throw the book at him? Do you think he has a leg to stand on with? His position is, I'm just using the tools there in front of me.

Moish Peltz [00:22:26]:
Yeah, I mean, they have thrown the book at him. Right? Look, I think I'm kind of sympathetic to the argument of the. His actions were a legal use of the protocol as it was designed, but were used in a way which was not friendly. But. So from a criminal liability perspective, I am quite sympathetic. And I read the motion to dismiss that was filed earlier this, I think, this week or last week, and they make a really good case. Right? This using a system as designed. It was not market manipulation.

Moish Peltz [00:23:12]:
These were. These were not commodities, futures contracts. These are. These are like crypto mango tokens that everyone trading them knew they could lose all their money.

Kyle Lawrence [00:23:22]:
Right?

Moish Peltz [00:23:22]:
I played the game. I won the game, haha, it's a little bit ruthless, but that's kind of, you know, that's what we're doing here. Right? So, you know, the criminal prosecutors obviously don't see it that way. Right? And I get that this is alleged manipulation and fraud and how they're coming to that. So it's a really interesting case. You know, I, I don't even know. I can, I can, this is just have to see how it plays out before you can even like, pick a side here.

Kyle Lawrence [00:23:55]:
I just think it creates somewhat of a slippery slope. I mean, you, you're, you mentioned it. It's. At what point does gaming the system stray into skirting the line? Maybe some, some illegality? It's, it's, it can get very awkward in some of these more nuanced cases. And it just reminds me of, it's not a direct one to one, but, you know, people who are involved in the Celsius bankruptcy, anybody who saw what was happening pulled their money out and now they're getting notices, hey, you got to put some of that money back in. They're like, why do I have to put money back in? Because someone else didn't, couldn't read the tea leaves and see what was going on, but they have to. And it's, it, to me, it's just very gray and I don't know, I don't like it. I don't like it.

Moish Peltz [00:24:33]:
Moshe, look, I mean, I think it sends a message that if you're a tech geek and you see something that is a potential exploit where, hey, I could contribute this and take out, you know, a huge amount of money there is illegal. I don't know, maybe, maybe not, right? But if you don't want to find out, like, this is a standard, like, like fuck around, find out kind of situation, right?

Kyle Lawrence [00:24:59]:
I mean, I have to go on somewhat of a rant for a second. Forgive me, but I hear what you're saying, and it's, and it's, and it's, you're, you're not wrong, but it's like Martha Stewart high profile situation. Somebody calls you and says, hey, Martha, guess what? The shit hits the fan and you're about to lose all your money unless you pull the money out. You're going to pull your money out. What are you supposed to do, leave it in there and lose it all? Like, the concept of that is insane to me. And the fact that they go after people and throw her in jail, I'm not saying inside is okay, but that's crazy to me.

Moish Peltz [00:25:31]:
But that's a fundamentally different position. Right. Because that's a defensive position. That's you saying, I have my money in this thing. If I don't take it out, it's all going to get. It's all going to go to zero. And if you're a user of mango and someone said, hey, someone's in the middle of exploiting this thing, quick, take your money out. I don't think that person's being prosecuted.

Moish Peltz [00:25:49]:
Right. The person being prosecuted is the person that's like.

Kyle Lawrence [00:25:52]:
Is the one doing the market cash.

Moish Peltz [00:25:54]:
Allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly. So, you know, I think there's a really solid legal argument that the thing he did was not manipulation and was not illegal. Right. But the point is he's the one that instigated the. The downfall of this protocol and now he's facing a legal challenge. He's got to defend himself.

Moish Peltz [00:26:19]:
Right?

Kyle Lawrence [00:26:20]:
I've become everything I've always hated. I'm sitting here advocating for a guy who got $110 million off the protocol.

Moish Peltz [00:26:27]:
He gave some of it back.

Kyle Lawrence [00:26:28]:
Kyle, come on, give some of it back. I know, I know. All right, fine. He's great. He's a. He's a saint. Clary cleared that up.

Moish Peltz [00:26:36]:
All right, onto our next topic. Increasingly we're seeing the real world assets, the tokenization of real things, and I guess even like funds, which somehow are real world assets but aren't real. And in this case, I want to talk about the diamond tokenization on the avalanche blockchain, which is created by the Diamond Standard fund. And they introduced a security token on the Avax C chain representing a stake in the fund benchmarked against Bloomberg's diamond index. So if you're a accredited investor in the US, you can now go on the Oasis pro market and register yourself for these securities and buy them in your IRA and do other cool stuff, and then have a secondary market for those assets afterwards, which I think is fundamentally better. See, everybody, a better way to buy a private fund than just like, signing a subscription agreement and like, not hearing from anyone for ten years, which I think is a lot of how these private funds work. So you have a real liquid secondary market traded on the blockchain. I think that's an improvement.

Moish Peltz [00:27:55]:
And there's several other real world asset examples we can talk about recently. So, Kyle, is this the future of private investment?

Kyle Lawrence [00:28:05]:
I sure hope so. And I think you're right in that it's a better way. Look, there's never a bad time to build a better mousetrap. And these types of funds using the technology that's available to them, it just offers so much more transparency. I mean, I'm a securities attorney by trade, and a lot of times you're exactly right. Somebody cuts a check, then six months go by and they have to make phone calls to find out what happens with these protocols. You don't have to do that. It's true.

Moish Peltz [00:28:31]:
Did you get my check? That's all I want to know. Right, right.

Kyle Lawrence [00:28:34]:
I know you cashed it, so obviously it's usually the telltale side, but I think this is really fascinating. And you were talking about some other of these projects. Blackrock somewhat famously has unveiled the BlackRock USD Institutional digital Liquidity fund, which just rolls off the tongue, but it's called the, you know, the biddle fund because.

Moish Peltz [00:28:56]:
Why not?

Kyle Lawrence [00:28:56]:
Because of course it is. And the fund is backed by cash US treasury bills and repurchase agreements, and offers a daily yield payouts via blockchain tech to its token holders. Same thing. I think this is just awesome. I love reading about these things and I'm really excited to see what other ways that this can be implemented. Were there any others that came up that you were looking at?

Moish Peltz [00:29:19]:
I'm glad you asked. I just read today that Bitfinex securities is offering a debt fund for the construction of a Hampton Inn hotel near the El Salvadorian International airport. And so again, you're seeing another approach here. I think the Blackrock one was interesting. I saw that it had a $5 million minimum, but that you could transfer directly to USDC. So for institutions, this is actually if you want to have on chain liquidity and have USDC into Blackrock bill token, or you're getting treasury income, then you swap that back to USCC and do other degenerate crypto trades. Great. Bitfinex, I think this is for non us persons.

Moish Peltz [00:30:03]:
If you want to get 10% yield, like funding a hotel on the blockchain. Cool. And if you want to own a diamond fund, you can do that now in oasis, which is, I think it's an alternative trading system. So it's registered with the SEC and FINRA, and you have a hope that the platform at least is kind of registered and not going to go anywhere. So all these options, I think are just in the past couple of weeks, and increasingly you're seeing really cool fund ideas pop up. And I know it's just an area that's really cool. And I'm excited to see the adoption pick up and continue. And hopefully not everyone loses their money in this kind of.

Kyle Lawrence [00:30:42]:
And the fact that they're compliant with some, some of these, which is what we've all been clamoring for and is fantastic. So it's, it's funny that these got a little bit less fanfare than the ETF's. It did. But they're, to me, they're just as important and I don't know. Yeah, right.

Moish Peltz [00:30:58]:
It's like, look, the same thing you've always said a hundred times, like, if someone, like, hears the word security all of a sudden, like, they run away and it's like, oh, actually, you can, you can trade securities. There's, there's a legal ways to do that. And, I mean, that's one of the things the SEC has been saying, which, like, okay, fine, but they haven't really shown a great marketable way to do that. And so you're having to have these people on the more experimental end doing, like, diamond funds on avalanche and then, like, blackrock. So that's kind of cool. Right? And across the spectrum, you're seeing different kinds of rollouts of these, of these real world asset funds.

Kyle Lawrence [00:31:33]:
Yeah. Great stuff, as always, moish. And not a full topic for today's show, but somewhat famously, the bit, the buy bitcoin guy. The guy, Christian Langelis, I think that's how you say his name, who went viral. And back in 2017 when he sat behind Janet Yellen, who's brilliant, by the way, with just a loose leaf paper that said buy bitcoin on it. Well, he's going to sell that now to fund his next project, and he's going to apparently collect $350,000 projected for it. So I, not to be outdone, am ready. I'm ready for my viral moment.

Kyle Lawrence [00:32:09]:
Now I just need to orchestrate a scenario where I sit behind Jerome Powell in a public setting. So producer Chris, produce that. That's just, that's what I need you to make.

Moish Peltz [00:32:19]:
I did $1.

Kyle Lawrence [00:32:22]:
Listen, I'll take what I could get beggers can't be choosers. Well, that about wraps it up for this episode of Block and Order, don't forget to like and subscribe and follow us on all our socials. Links are down below in the show notes. If there's a particular topic you'd like us to cover on the show, please drop a comment down below and we'd be happy to cover it for you. Don't forget that any assets, crypto cryptocurrencies, NFTs or BRC tokens that we discuss on the show, not to mention any of the clothing that we may wear, does not in any way represent an endorsement of these assets, even though we may own some of the assets that we talk about on the show, in some cases irresponsibly. So always consult your own attorney before taking the plunge. Do your own research, talk to your own representatives.

Kyle Lawrence [00:33:05]:
Don't forget about tax day. Very special thank you to producer Chris for staying up late. Without him, the show would not be possible. And so for that, for block and order, I am Kyle Lawrence.

Moish Peltz [00:33:15]:
And I'm Moish Peltz.

Kyle Lawrence [00:33:17]:
So long, everybody.